Failed vasectomy & its consequences

[Greg Menke]

Hello,

I wanted to post this in response to someones posting in April on this
subject but looks like it is too late so I'm going to start another
thread here with our story.

I am the wife of a husband who went through a pregnancy as a result of
my husband's failed vasectomy. I know in reading here that frequently
you hear stories but never hear the end. I am going to go ahead and
share our story, the end isn't quite there but we're working on it.
I'm sharing this mostly for the benefit of those few of you (un)lucky
guys to have failures and question the statistics, but also for those
who are relying on vasectomies. Admittedly I'm a bit bitter here so
I'm doing this for the benefit of your partners, for speaking out for
women.

In December of 2000 my husband had a vasectomy. We spent seven solid
months debating on whether to have the procedure done before we had it
done. We had been married 5+ years, were in our mid 30's, and were
both adamant about not wanting children. Frankly we were the poster
children for double income no kids. We spoke out so vocally on the
subject, our friends who got pregnant were afraid to tell us. Bottom
line is that we were sure beyond any doubt that we didn't want
children. My husband and I did the safe sex routine for six months
after the vasectomy and six months later, June 2001, DH had a semen
analysis done which came back clear-0 sperm. Only at that point did
we start having unprotected sex. Last June, June 2002, I found out I
was 27 weeks pregnant. I am 5'8, normally run 135 lbs, had gained
exactly 3 lbs, and the only obvious pregnancy sign I had was missed
periods. I have always hated OB/GYN's which is why I hadn't gone to
one prior to this point. I had NEVER cheated on my husband EVER and
fortunately my husband believed me. In our case I was far too long
for us to attempt to terminate the pregnancy, and because an amnio
indicated nothing detectable was wrong, so we decided upon adoption,
never believing that we would ever feel any differently than we ever
had. Doing the numbers here you will realize that I got pregnant one
year after my husband's vasectomy and six months after a zero sperm
count. In technical terms this was considered a "late term
recanalization".

So what happened you ask? Being pregnant when you want children even
less than your husband does quite frankly SUCKS. I was 35 last year
and had only gained 3 lbs at that point. I, who had NEVER wanted
kids, went though 14 doctors appointments in 12 weeks. I spend many
hours in doctors offices with lovely female exams because I didn't
"look" pregnant with doctors terrified that I was pregnant with a
child facing some kind of growth problem. To be brutally honest it
was a nightmare. Society expects you to want to be a Mommy and I
didn't. The heap of guilt thrown at me by our parents who wanted to
be grandparents was great. Again, though we didn't have a subsequent
semen analysis done until AFTER our son was born (positive), noboby
who knows me EVER questioned our story. (If I may interrupt, if
anyone had questioned us, I was and am fully prepared to tell them to
shove it. Our decisions are our business, we're all for making it
easier for people to accept our choices, but we don't live to make the
choices others might prefer. Greg). I got really lucky and gave
birth to a perfectly healthy son. Mother Nature however is not
necessarily fair as my husband and I have found out the hard way.
Many women, though not all as we all know from the horror stories we
hear, do in fact get hit by that maternal instinct after the birth of
their children, which is powerful, and I did in fact wind up falling
in love with our son a day after he was born. My husband also fell in
love with our son but we still did not want to take on the
responsbilities of parenthood for a variety of reasons. So I then was
put into a wonderful position of making the decision of whether I
wanted to reverse our adoption decision, thus ripping the adoptive
couples hearts in a thousand pieces and probably ensuring a divorce
with my husband, or sticking with our decision.

Because I had so admantly not wanted children myself and I was
terrified of taking on "Mommyhood" and forcing my husband into
"Daddyhood" without his really wanting to, we stuck with the adoption
decision. DH and I have been through hell and back in the last year
however. DH did have a subsequent semen analysis done October 2002,
when our son was about a month old, and it came back very positive for
sperm . Actually his analysis came back as considered a normal
analysis, count is low but motile density (key factor) is within what
is considered normal due to great forward motility, is considered a
"normal" semen analysis and we've had a family practictioner ask why
we had it done. DH also visited a third party urologist (didn't do
the job and was thus unbiased) examine DH and was sure he could feel a
possible site of reconnection and assured DH he'd have no problems
fathering a future child.

DH and I have spent the intervening months in separate therapy and
have decided MUTUALLY to try and conceive another child-10 months
later. We are both excited about it but we have also gone through a
lot of therapy to get where we are today. Our marriage has nearly
crumbled many times and I have gone through a DEEP depression as a
result. If DH had questioned me ONCE I would have likely divorced
him. He is fortunately a good guy and we have a solid marriage so
when the semen analysis came back after our son's birth positive he
was not surprised and neither was his family. (I don't think the
marriage was nigh unto crumbling, but it has been a rough ride, and I
think some of her depression was related to hormones- or at least
triggered by them).

I did decide, since I discovered by mistake that our adoption agency
had assumed that I'd had an affair and was trying to pass my son off
as my husbands when it wasn't, to find out where the 1 in 1000
vasectomy failure rates come from. Frankly I am an intelligent,
educated person, who would NEVER cheat on my husband, and I do very
much love our son, and if people are going to question my fidelity
then I want to know the details behind the numbers. I mean after all
it was my fidelity that society questioned, not my husband's. I first
asked the urologist who performed the vasectomy, and who was looking
at DH's lab results from 10/02, where they get their failure rates
from. First the urologist told me that I should play the
lottery-thanks buddy. Then he admitted that he had ABSOLUTELEY NO
CLUE where the statistics come from that they quote prior to
performing vasectomies. I used these numbers to guess whether or not
I might have ovarian cancer (similar symptoms as pregnancy until the
kid starts moving). I used those numbers to guess I wasn't pregnant.
Stupid, yes, but I have faced feeling guilty that our son had NO
prenatal care, NOT my husband, until I was almost seven months
pregnant. DH is a good guy, but I also didn't tell him about those
missed periods for many months-never told him about them so I'm not
blaming him, only me. I found out that our HMO uses the Food and Drug
Admininistrations (FDA's) vasectomy failure rates to tell their
patients. So far it appears this statistic is based on clinical
trials held heaven knows when and heaven knows under what
circumstances. I put in a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request
to find out where the 1 in 1000 failure rate comes from. I have now
been waiting since March. I dealt with several Federal employees to
find out where my request stood and they all blew me off. I now have
a Congresswoman and a Senator from my state who have stepped in for me
after expressing my frustration over the FDA's response, and both have
put in inquiries on my behalf. Two months later after THEIR requests
on my behalf and I'm still waiting for my answer. The answer to why I
assumed I WASN'T pregnant (stupid yes after 6 no periods I do admit)
but also why this assumption that I might have ovarian cancer (odds
1:57 vs. the 1:1000 vasectomy failure rates). I put our son's LIFE at
risk due to these statistics about which nobody knows any details. I
have also gone on and asked my uncle, a urologist for 30+ years and HE
doesn't know where the numbers come from. Bottom line is our son is
now 10 months old and I have not been able to find ONE doctor, have
asked NUMEROUS OB/GYN's and urologists, and nobody knows where their
own stastics come from.

In the end the question is why am I telling you this story? If your
vasectomy fails after the "all clear" it will only be through a
positive pregnancy test from your partner that you will ever know. Is
your partner lying to you to protect their own fidelity? Its possible
yes. In fact probable due to mere statistics-yes. Just remember
though, that according to my own research, that if 1:1000 vasectomies
a year fail, and there are (according to Planned Parenthood) 500,000
vasectomies a year performed in the U.S., then there are in fact 500
legitimate pregnancies per year that occur. I was one of the 500 due
to a late term recanalization, which do occur. If your partner comes
up pregnant though, I will GUARANTEE that even if legit, she will pay
a far greater price than you will ever dream of. Late term abortion,
or adoption, or parenting a child you don't want? What woman who
really cares about her child would really make up such stories about
your fertility I ask?

-September '02 vasectomy Mom

(All I'll add is that if you're searching for certainty and security,
you've come to the wrong universe. There are no guarantees and the
statistics are crap, so if you're relying on a vasectomy for birth
control, you might consider having tests occasionally. Greg)

[Greg Menke]

What a terrible story! You should definitely add it to the stories at
the website (url below).
Some additional information would be useful. Which vasectomy method
did your husband have? The Safety and Effectiveness of Vasectomy
document at the
website--probably the most complete analysis of scientific writing
about vasectomy that is available--has some interesting things to say
on the effectiveness side: namely that while the prodedure is
considered highly effective, no really good longterm studies have been
conducted comparing the relative effectivenss of different methods.
So your story could be very helpful on this score. (By the way, the
document confirms what you say: that big studies have not been
conducted; that late failures of vasectomy may very well go
under-reported.)

I don't have the precise name of the procedure at hand, but I can tell
you how it was done. A urologist for our HMO did it on an outpatient
basis at one of their medical centers. FWIW, they did have a
mandatory counselling session beforehand with a weeks opportunity for
reconsideration. The risks and consequences of the procedures were I
think fairly presented.

The procedure was was follows;

on both sides of the scrotum a fairly short incision was made, up near
the base. A short section of the vas was found on each side and about
1/2" was cut out of each. All cut ends were cauterized and the loose
ends tucked back in, the wounds were sutured. All done neat and fast
with a local. The urologist showed me the 2 pieces and I think I
turned green. The after-effects were as specified, and went away as
predicted.

Our HMO only specifies one test 3 months afterwards, I forgot to go
back until 6 months after the procedure. During this 6 month interval
we used condoms. The test was negative, so we figured we were good to
go and quit with the condoms. Sometime in the next 6 months at least
one of the canals rejoined, leading to the pregnancy. We're quite
sure of the dates- my wife got pregnant 6 months after the negative
sperm test, about one year and one week after the procedure was
performed.

After the birth, I had a second sperm test which came up positive-
considered "normal" in fact, and had a referral to another urologist
to discuss it. He didn't tell me much of anything new, though after
copping a feel, he felt he might have found a site of reconnection.
We questioned the HMO very closely about the first negative test and
there was no hesitation or doubt on their part about the test and
their conclusions. So we have to trust their lab results, theres no
way to tell what errors might have been at this point. If I had to do
the procedure over, I'd definitely insist on a 2nd test.

We never really considered a lawsuit because there was no sign of
incompetence or bad procedure- sometimes shit happens, if you will.
Also, the outcome of the failure was a baby whom we gave up for
adoption to a wonderful couple who had been trying unsuccessfully for
years to have their own children. They came to the hospital for the
birth (in the waiting room), and seeing them meet the baby they were
going to take home was incredible. Neither my wife or I have ever
done anything for anyone that has given half as much joy- I liken it
to seeing the lights come on in their family. It was amazing and I'll
never forget it. As far as we're concerned lawyers and settlements
and ill-will would only cheapen the experience. That said, the HMO
has been very cooperative since- no royal treatment, but none of the
tedious run-around so frequently associated with them.

All in all, I'd recommend vasectomy as birth control- but with the
proviso that the "1 in 1000" stats are not precise and no-one really
knows how effective the procedure is.

Gregm

Two other questions: 1) You say you had safe sex for 6 months after
the vasectomy, then 6 months after those first 6 monts had a semen
test that showed no sperm. Does this mean you practised no
birthcontrol for 6 months before the semen test? If this is true, why
did you do this? 2) You mention one semen test. Was there a second?
A second is generally recommended, in part to avoid laboratory error.
(We recently heard at this site of a guy whose semen tests were
miscoded, showing he had sperm when he didn't.)
trifold
http://www.vasectomy-information.com

Post by Greg Menke
Hello,
I wanted to post this in response to someones posting in April on this
subject but looks like it is too late so I'm going to start another
thread here with our story.
I am the wife of a husband who went through a pregnancy as a result of
my husband's failed vasectomy. I know in reading here that frequently
you hear stories but never hear the end. I am going to go ahead and
share our story, the end isn't quite there but we're working on it.
I'm sharing this mostly for the benefit of those few of you (un)lucky
guys to have failures and question the statistics, but also for those
who are relying on vasectomies. Admittedly I'm a bit bitter here so
I'm doing this for the benefit of your partners, for speaking out for
women.
In December of 2000 my husband had a vasectomy. We spent seven solid
months debating on whether to have the procedure done before we had it
done. We had been married 5+ years, were in our mid 30's, and were
both adamant about not wanting children. Frankly we were the poster
children for double income no kids. We spoke out so vocally on the
subject, our friends who got pregnant were afraid to tell us. Bottom
line is that we were sure beyond any doubt that we didn't want
children. My husband and I did the safe sex routine for six months
after the vasectomy and six months later, June 2001, DH had a semen
analysis done which came back clear-0 sperm. Only at that point did
we start having unprotected sex. Last June, June 2002, I found out I
was 27 weeks pregnant. I am 5'8, normally run 135 lbs, had gained
exactly 3 lbs, and the only obvious pregnancy sign I had was missed
periods. I have always hated OB/GYN's which is why I hadn't gone to
one prior to this point. I had NEVER cheated on my husband EVER and
fortunately my husband believed me. In our case I was far too long
for us to attempt to terminate the pregnancy, and because an amnio
indicated nothing detectable was wrong, so we decided upon adoption,
never believing that we would ever feel any differently than we ever
had. Doing the numbers here you will realize that I got pregnant one
year after my husband's vasectomy and six months after a zero sperm
count. In technical terms this was considered a "late term
recanalization".
So what happened you ask? Being pregnant when you want children even
less than your husband does quite frankly SUCKS. I was 35 last year
and had only gained 3 lbs at that point. I, who had NEVER wanted
kids, went though 14 doctors appointments in 12 weeks. I spend many
hours in doctors offices with lovely female exams because I didn't
"look" pregnant with doctors terrified that I was pregnant with a
child facing some kind of growth problem. To be brutally honest it
was a nightmare. Society expects you to want to be a Mommy and I
didn't. The heap of guilt thrown at me by our parents who wanted to
be grandparents was great. Again, though we didn't have a subsequent
semen analysis done until AFTER our son was born (positive), noboby
who knows me EVER questioned our story. (If I may interrupt, if
anyone had questioned us, I was and am fully prepared to tell them to
shove it. Our decisions are our business, we're all for making it
easier for people to accept our choices, but we don't live to make the
choices others might prefer. Greg). I got really lucky and gave
birth to a perfectly healthy son. Mother Nature however is not
necessarily fair as my husband and I have found out the hard way.
Many women, though not all as we all know from the horror stories we
hear, do in fact get hit by that maternal instinct after the birth of
their children, which is powerful, and I did in fact wind up falling
in love with our son a day after he was born. My husband also fell in
love with our son but we still did not want to take on the
responsbilities of parenthood for a variety of reasons. So I then was
put into a wonderful position of making the decision of whether I
wanted to reverse our adoption decision, thus ripping the adoptive
couples hearts in a thousand pieces and probably ensuring a divorce
with my husband, or sticking with our decision.
Because I had so admantly not wanted children myself and I was
terrified of taking on "Mommyhood" and forcing my husband into
"Daddyhood" without his really wanting to, we stuck with the adoption
decision. DH and I have been through hell and back in the last year
however. DH did have a subsequent semen analysis done October 2002,
when our son was about a month old, and it came back very positive for
sperm . Actually his analysis came back as considered a normal
analysis, count is low but motile density (key factor) is within what
is considered normal due to great forward motility, is considered a
"normal" semen analysis and we've had a family practictioner ask why
we had it done. DH also visited a third party urologist (didn't do
the job and was thus unbiased) examine DH and was sure he could feel a
possible site of reconnection and assured DH he'd have no problems
fathering a future child.
DH and I have spent the intervening months in separate therapy and
have decided MUTUALLY to try and conceive another child-10 months
later. We are both excited about it but we have also gone through a
lot of therapy to get where we are today. Our marriage has nearly
crumbled many times and I have gone through a DEEP depression as a
result. If DH had questioned me ONCE I would have likely divorced
him. He is fortunately a good guy and we have a solid marriage so
when the semen analysis came back after our son's birth positive he
was not surprised and neither was his family. (I don't think the
marriage was nigh unto crumbling, but it has been a rough ride, and I
think some of her depression was related to hormones- or at least
triggered by them).
I did decide, since I discovered by mistake that our adoption agency
had assumed that I'd had an affair and was trying to pass my son off
as my husbands when it wasn't, to find out where the 1 in 1000
vasectomy failure rates come from. Frankly I am an intelligent,
educated person, who would NEVER cheat on my husband, and I do very
much love our son, and if people are going to question my fidelity
then I want to know the details behind the numbers. I mean after all
it was my fidelity that society questioned, not my husband's. I first
asked the urologist who performed the vasectomy, and who was looking
at DH's lab results from 10/02, where they get their failure rates
from. First the urologist told me that I should play the
lottery-thanks buddy. Then he admitted that he had ABSOLUTELEY NO
CLUE where the statistics come from that they quote prior to
performing vasectomies. I used these numbers to guess whether or not
I might have ovarian cancer (similar symptoms as pregnancy until the
kid starts moving). I used those numbers to guess I wasn't pregnant.
Stupid, yes, but I have faced feeling guilty that our son had NO
prenatal care, NOT my husband, until I was almost seven months
pregnant. DH is a good guy, but I also didn't tell him about those
missed periods for many months-never told him about them so I'm not
blaming him, only me. I found out that our HMO uses the Food and Drug
Admininistrations (FDA's) vasectomy failure rates to tell their
patients. So far it appears this statistic is based on clinical
trials held heaven knows when and heaven knows under what
circumstances. I put in a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request
to find out where the 1 in 1000 failure rate comes from. I have now
been waiting since March. I dealt with several Federal employees to
find out where my request stood and they all blew me off. I now have
a Congresswoman and a Senator from my state who have stepped in for me
after expressing my frustration over the FDA's response, and both have
put in inquiries on my behalf. Two months later after THEIR requests
on my behalf and I'm still waiting for my answer. The answer to why I
assumed I WASN'T pregnant (stupid yes after 6 no periods I do admit)
but also why this assumption that I might have ovarian cancer (odds
1:57 vs. the 1:1000 vasectomy failure rates). I put our son's LIFE at
risk due to these statistics about which nobody knows any details. I
have also gone on and asked my uncle, a urologist for 30+ years and HE
doesn't know where the numbers come from. Bottom line is our son is
now 10 months old and I have not been able to find ONE doctor, have
asked NUMEROUS OB/GYN's and urologists, and nobody knows where their
own stastics come from.
In the end the question is why am I telling you this story? If your
vasectomy fails after the "all clear" it will only be through a
positive pregnancy test from your partner that you will ever know. Is
your partner lying to you to protect their own fidelity? Its possible
yes. In fact probable due to mere statistics-yes. Just remember
though, that according to my own research, that if 1:1000 vasectomies
a year fail, and there are (according to Planned Parenthood) 500,000
vasectomies a year performed in the U.S., then there are in fact 500
legitimate pregnancies per year that occur. I was one of the 500 due
to a late term recanalization, which do occur. If your partner comes
up pregnant though, I will GUARANTEE that even if legit, she will pay
a far greater price than you will ever dream of. Late term abortion,
or adoption, or parenting a child you don't want? What woman who
really cares about her child would really make up such stories about
your fertility I ask?
-September '02 vasectomy Mom
(All I'll add is that if you're searching for certainty and security,
you've come to the wrong universe. There are no guarantees and the
statistics are crap, so if you're relying on a vasectomy for birth
control, you might consider having tests occasionally. Greg)

[trifold]

Hi Greg,

Post by Greg Menke
I don't have the precise name of the procedure at hand, but I can tell
you how it was done. A urologist for our HMO did it on an outpatient
basis at one of their medical centers. FWIW, they did have a
mandatory counselling session beforehand with a weeks opportunity for
reconsideration. The risks and consequences of the procedures were I
think fairly presented.
The procedure was was follows;
on both sides of the scrotum a fairly short incision was made, up near
the base. A short section of the vas was found on each side and about
1/2" was cut out of each. All cut ends were cauterized and the loose
ends tucked back in, the wounds were sutured. All done neat and fast
with a local. The urologist showed me the 2 pieces and I think I
turned green. The after-effects were as specified, and went away as
predicted.

Hmmm...This sounds exactly like mine, except I had sutures not
cautery. I asked about the procedure because the open ended version
is sometimes described as more likely to fail. But you and I both had
closed ended. (gulp!)

Post by Greg Menke
Our HMO only specifies one test 3 months afterwards, I forgot to go
back until 6 months after the procedure. During this 6 month interval
we used condoms. The test was negative, so we figured we were good to
go and quit with the condoms.

I see. I misunderstood the orginal post.

Post by Greg Menke
Sometime in the next 6 months at least
one of the canals rejoined, leading to the pregnancy. We're quite
sure of the dates- my wife got pregnant 6 months after the negative
sperm test, about one year and one week after the procedure was
performed.
After the birth, I had a second sperm test which came up positive-
considered "normal" in fact, and had a referral to another urologist
to discuss it. He didn't tell me much of anything new, though after
copping a feel, he felt he might have found a site of reconnection.
We questioned the HMO very closely about the first negative test and
there was no hesitation or doubt on their part about the test and
their conclusions. So we have to trust their lab results, theres no
way to tell what errors might have been at this point. If I had to do
the procedure over, I'd definitely insist on a 2nd test.

Yes. I understand. Recanalization might have occurred. But it is
also possible there was lab error. I think one lesson of your story
is to insist on two samples (even though that might not have helped
you anyway).

Post by Greg Menke
We never really considered a lawsuit because there was no sign of
incompetence or bad procedure- sometimes shit happens, if you will.

Still, the original doctor might have been interested to know about
what happened to you. Recanalizaiton is so rare, and so little is
known about its frequency relative to particular methods, that your
information is valuable. Did you ever talk to him about it?

Post by Greg Menke
Also, the outcome of the failure was a baby whom we gave up for
adoption to a wonderful couple who had been trying unsuccessfully for
years to have their own children. They came to the hospital for the
birth (in the waiting room), and seeing them meet the baby they were
going to take home was incredible. Neither my wife or I have ever
done anything for anyone that has given half as much joy- I liken it
to seeing the lights come on in their family. It was amazing and I'll
never forget it. As far as we're concerned lawyers and settlements
and ill-will would only cheapen the experience. That said, the HMO
has been very cooperative since- no royal treatment, but none of the
tedious run-around so frequently associated with them.

It's good things worked out well for them and you. Still, it sounds
as though you guys had a very hard time of it. And it could have been
a lot worse.

Post by Greg Menke
All in all, I'd recommend vasectomy as birth control- but with the
proviso that the "1 in 1000" stats are not precise and no-one really
knows how effective the procedure is.

Yes. The same as with all birth control, I guess. It's interesting
you are now planning a second child. I guess that means you won't be
going back for a "re-do" of the original vasectomy. Was this offered,
by the way?

-----

trifold
http://www.vasectomy-information.com

[ROB]

Greg,
I really don't know where to start, so I'll just jump in and speak
my peace,
I read the 1-1000 recanalisation stats too, but I'm beginning to
wonder. I also read that the difference between closed and open ended
is .04% for closed to .06% for the open ended procedure. I will try to
figure out where I got those numbers. And I will try to do some
research at school on Monday.

I was going to say something to you Trifold about the lawyer thing.
I was looking for an attorney for a friend who is having a problem
with a poor quality custom truck he just recieved. While searching I
saw several ads for "Failed Sterilizations", strange medicine indeed!
I really don't see how it could bring anything in a court of law
unless there is some sort of neglegence. PVP I could see, but the
failure I really can't see.

To all the others out there, this is the very reason that I bought a
microscope. I do a check on a monthly basis and now I see that I'm not
just paranoid, it can and does happen. You can get a very nice one for
around $80 with the shipping. The one I got is an older model, but it
does a good job. You'll need one of at least 100x but 400x (x= power).
You'll not be able to mistake a sperm for anything else.
All good medicine,
GREENFEATHER

[trifold]

Post by ROB
I was going to say something to you Trifold about the lawyer thing.
I was looking for an attorney for a friend who is having a problem
with a poor quality custom truck he just recieved. While searching I
saw several ads for "Failed Sterilizations", strange medicine indeed!
I really don't see how it could bring anything in a court of law
unless there is some sort of neglegence. PVP I could see, but the
failure I really can't see.

I agree. But surely cases of botched lab testing would qualify. And
maybe even failure to advise re: risks of recanalization. Given there
is very little hard data on the relative failure rates of various
procededures, that might be as far as anyone could go.

trifold
http://www.vasectomy-information.com